How Fender's new SCN pickups works in HSS strats.

[s***@hotmail.com]

I want to change the two single coils in my HSS configration strat with
fender's new SCN pickups, but I cannot figure out how the hum
cancelling works for the second position ( Bridge upper coil parallel
with the middle single coil ).

For traditional pickups, the second position has no hum because the
middle SC and the upper bridge coil have different polarities, and the
60Hz hum from both coils cancel each other ( humbucking ). But with
the new SCN pickup, the middle coil is hum free, and now who is going
to cancel the hum from the upper bridge coil? ( As far as I can tell,
the SCN is not splitable. It has three wires but the middle one is
just ground shield, it hook up just like traditional single coil ).

Any idea?

_you know what to remove to reply!

[C***@hotmail.com]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
I want to change the two single coils in my HSS configration strat with
fender's new SCN pickups, but I cannot figure out how the hum
cancelling works for the second position ( Bridge upper coil parallel
with the middle single coil ).

Without the S1 switch, you will have a very difficult time getting all
the advertised combinations/options out of the SCN's.

Post by s***@hotmail.com
For traditional pickups, the second position has no hum because the
middle SC and the upper bridge coil have different polarities, and the
60Hz hum from both coils cancel each other ( humbucking ). But with
the new SCN pickup, the middle coil is hum free, and now who is going
to cancel the hum from the upper bridge coil? ( As far as I can tell,
the SCN is not splitable. It has three wires but the middle one is
just ground shield, it hook up just like traditional single coil ).

I installed a set of SCN's into my old Strat Plus, and just wired them
into the standard 5-way switching scheme: the GREEN and BLACK wires
come together to a common ground point on the case of the volume pot
and the
individual pickup signal wires connect to the 5-way switch per standard
wiring diagram. I'm happy with this set-up and really see no need for
all those S1 switching options. The SCN's are VERY fine pickups and led
me to 'bump' my Bill Lawrence L-280s into a back-up guitar.

[s***@hotmail.com]

Thanks for your input. Actually how do you compare the L280 and the
SCN? Is the SCN hotter, louder or warmer?

I guess I am not after the fancy combination offered by the S1
switching system, I just need the 5 traditional combination, neck,
neck+middle, middle, middle + bridge and bridge ( bridge is a humbucker
). My problem is how to obtain a hum free sound from the second
position, combining a noise free middle SC and a noisy upper coil of a
humbucker.

I am thinking maybe I use a mega switch or something to connect the
bridge coils in parallel to get a more or less "single coil" sound and
combine it with the middle noiseless when I am in position 2. But not
sure if I can retain the squark.

Thanks

[Biskits n'Gravy]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
Thanks for your input. Actually how do you compare the L280 and the
SCN? Is the SCN hotter, louder or warmer?

Slightly warmer and louder.

Post by s***@hotmail.com
I guess I am not after the fancy combination offered by the S1
switching system, I just need the 5 traditional combination, neck,
neck+middle, middle, middle + bridge and bridge ( bridge is a humbucker
). My problem is how to obtain a hum free sound from the second
position, combining a noise free middle SC and a noisy upper coil of a
humbucker.

Since the SCN's are 'noiseless', stacked air-gap humbuckers, the middle
pickup is not RWRP. So while it 'quacks' nicely with it's bridge pickup
sibling, it does not have to worry about hum cancellation. With your
split-coil humbucker, the bridge p/u may introduce some noise. But I don't
think it will be significant. I wouldn't worry about it...cross that bridge
when you come to it.

Post by s***@hotmail.com
I am thinking maybe I use a mega switch or something to connect the
bridge coils in parallel to get a more or less "single coil" sound and
combine it with the middle noiseless when I am in position 2. But not
sure if I can retain the squark.

Ya got me. I use a Duncan 59 split coil pickup in the neck of my Hamer
Sunburst, along with a 59 in the bridge that is not split coil. I don't
worry about
that series/parallel switching stuff...too complicated for me, and when I'm
playing I don't have time to fiddle with other than the standard switching
selections. For instance, that 6-way rotating switch on some PRS guitars
would drive me nuts.

Post by s***@hotmail.com
Thanks

You're welcome.

[Mick]

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
I don't
worry about
that series/parallel switching stuff...too complicated for me, and when I'm
playing I don't have time to fiddle with other than the standard switching
selections. For instance, that 6-way rotating switch on some PRS guitars
would drive me nuts.

Why would you have to worry about it? If you hooked it up right,
position 4 would run the bridge 'bucker in parallel and stick the
middle pickup with it. You just have to get one of those Mega-
switches, or something similar that gives you more than just the
standard Start options.

[Biskits n'Gravy]

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
I don't
worry about
that series/parallel switching stuff...too complicated for me, and when I'm
playing I don't have time to fiddle with other than the standard switching
selections. For instance, that 6-way rotating switch on some PRS guitars
would drive me nuts.

Why would you have to worry about it? If you hooked it up right,
position 4 would run the bridge 'bucker in parallel and stick the
middle pickup with it. You just have to get one of those Mega-
switches, or something similar that gives you more than just the
standard Start options.
--
---Mikhael...

[Biskits n'Gravy]

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
I don't
worry about
that series/parallel switching stuff...too complicated for me, and when I'm
playing I don't have time to fiddle with other than the standard switching
selections. For instance, that 6-way rotating switch on some PRS guitars
would drive me nuts.

Why would you have to worry about it? If you hooked it up right,
position 4 would run the bridge 'bucker in parallel and stick the
middle pickup with it. You just have to get one of those Mega-
switches, or something similar that gives you more than just the
standard Start options.
--
---Mikhael...

Right you are, Mick. And I am sure that the the person who originated this
inquiry will be anxiously awaiting your detailed instructions on how to
"hook it up right", and the part number and source of the "Mega switch...or
something similar". Me, too, for that matter. Please be specific...

[harryj]

Post by C***@hotmail.com

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
I don't
worry about
that series/parallel switching stuff...too complicated for me, and when

I'm

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
playing I don't have time to fiddle with other than the standard

switching

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
selections. For instance, that 6-way rotating switch on some PRS

guitars

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
would drive me nuts.

Why would you have to worry about it? If you hooked it up right,
position 4 would run the bridge 'bucker in parallel and stick the
middle pickup with it. You just have to get one of those Mega-
switches, or something similar that gives you more than just the
standard Start options.
--
---Mikhael...

Right you are, Mick. And I am sure that the the person who originated this
inquiry will be anxiously awaiting your detailed instructions on how to
"hook it up right", and the part number and source of the "Mega switch...or
something similar". Me, too, for that matter. Please be specific...

----------

I have forwarded this to a friend who is brilliant with wiring diagrams and
has realized some of my most wacky requests. Some of which are on the gear
page of my site, including audio demos of each pup combo.

The 4 pole, 5 way can be found at this link:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/1/Super_Switch/Pictures.html#details

Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net

[Mick]

Post by C***@hotmail.com

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
I don't
worry about
that series/parallel switching stuff...too complicated for me, and when

I'm

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
playing I don't have time to fiddle with other than the standard

switching

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
selections. For instance, that 6-way rotating switch on some PRS

guitars

Post by Mick

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
would drive me nuts.

Why would you have to worry about it? If you hooked it up right,
position 4 would run the bridge 'bucker in parallel and stick the
middle pickup with it. You just have to get one of those Mega-
switches, or something similar that gives you more than just the
standard Start options.
--
---Mikhael...

Right you are, Mick. And I am sure that the the person who originated this
inquiry will be anxiously awaiting your detailed instructions on how to
"hook it up right", and the part number and source of the "Mega switch...or
something similar". Me, too, for that matter. Please be specific...

Nah, it's not that much of a problem. If you go here,
http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-3200.html, you'll find wiring
and options for several different kinds of switches. Designing
and building an acoustic guitar emulator for an electric guitar?
That's tough! Wiring up passive pickups on an electric? Not so
tough...
This ain't the Mega-switch, it's called the "Super-Switch" (I
told you I wasn't sure).
If you really wanna know, imagine four coils: H1, H2, S3, S4.
The two H's are the two humbucker coils; "1" is the bridge, "2"
is the other one. "S3" is the middle single coil, leaving "S4"
by the neck. Each coil has two wires, + and -. There are 5
switch positions, 4 poles, and contacts numbered 0-5 on each
pole. I'll say "P1, 3*1". That means "Position 1, pole 3, contact
1". Alright? Got it? Look at the diagram, and here we go.
For purposes of ease, on the humbucker coils we'll say the point
where they are normally connected together is the "+" and the points
normally connected to ground and output are the "-". Which wires
these are varies from pickup to pickup, so you'll have to consult
your manufacturer's spec to find the right ones.
2*0 and 4*0 are connected together, and connected to the output
jack"+". H1-, S3-, and S4- are all connected to ground, as is the
outside of the output jack and 1*0. 3*0 is connected to H1+.
P1, 1*1
P1, 2*1
P1, 3*1
P1, 4*1 S4+

P2, 1*2
P2, 2*2 S3+
P2, 3*2
P2, 4*2 S4+

P3, 1*3
P3, 2*3 S3+
P3, 3*3
P3, 4*3

P4, 1*4 H2-
P4, 2*4 S3+
P4, 3*4 H2+
P4, 4*4 H1+

P5, 1*5
P5, 2*5
P5, 3*5 H2+
P5, 4*5 H2-

There is probably a simpler way (since H1+ and H2+ are never
separated), but I just did this off the top of my head. I hope
it's correct; I broswed throu it twice and it looks about right.
There ya go, mate. Specific enough for ya? 8^)

[Mick]

Post by Mick
I broswed throu it twice

Bloody stupid thing got away from me before I could stop it.
I guess I need to look at my posts closer... 8^)

[c***@eutelsat.fr]

Thanks for the kind words, Harry! Mikhael, there's just a small problem
with your wiring: the two coils of the bridge HB would be out of phase
in position 4. Sticking to your HB sign convention where the normal
series wiring would go GND -> [- H1 +] -> [+ H2 -] -> OUT, when you
wire it in parallel H2 should have + to ground and - to output, so all
is correct except:

P4, 1*4 H2+ and
P4, 3*4 H2-

Hope this helps,

Carlos

[Mick]

Post by c***@eutelsat.fr
Thanks for the kind words, Harry! Mikhael, there's just a small problem
with your wiring: the two coils of the bridge HB would be out of phase
in position 4. Sticking to your HB sign convention where the normal
series wiring would go GND -> [- H1 +] -> [+ H2 -] -> OUT, when you
wire it in parallel H2 should have + to ground and - to output, so all
P4, 1*4 H2+ and
P4, 3*4 H2-

Yeah, probably is. Like I said, I rolled it off the top of my
head whilst staring at the switch diagram on the screen. That
would probably be my choice of switch to do that, though, and I
might try it myself here soon. I've been wanting to try out
those SCN buggers, myself; now if I can just find an f-spaced
mini-humbucker for the neck position...

[s***@hotmail.com]

For the record, I went to guitar center today and tried a HSS Deluxe
American Strat with the S1 and SCN pickups. On the second position (
middle and bridge ), both the coils of the humbucker is on ( I use my
keys to tap on the poles ), and so is the middle pickup. I guess they
run all three coils in parallel.

I think this solves the mystery, as least on my end. I have the super
switch on order and I am going to try to run the bridge coils in
parallel, like what is suggested. Thanks.

[C***@hotmail.com]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
For the record, I went to guitar center today and tried a HSS Deluxe
American Strat with the S1 and SCN pickups. On the second position (
middle and bridge ), both the coils of the humbucker is on ( I use my
keys to tap on the poles ), and so is the middle pickup. I guess they
run all three coils in parallel.
I think this solves the mystery, as least on my end. I have the super
switch on order and I am going to try to run the bridge coils in
parallel, like what is suggested. Thanks.

If this is the case, then, according to the switching logic for this
guitar you had the S1 switch down (depressed/activated):

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/ADSTRAT_HSS_DLT_2005_UPGRADE/SD010159092APg4.pdf

Also, note that the coils of the bridge humbucker are NEVER configured
in parallel, i.e., it is always a SERIES HUMBUCKER .

[s***@hotmail.com]

Thanks for the input, I think you are right. I know both coils of the
humbucker is on, but I assume they are running in parallel, which is
obviously wrong from the diagram.

The HSS american deluxe strat at guitar center I've tried has the S1
switch messed up, it cannot be pushed, so I don't know whether it is
stucked in the up or down position.

From the diagram, the second position with S1 deactivated will hum. I

guess I need to find a working guitar and check it out.

Anyone has a HSS deluxe and would like to share their findings?

Al.

Post by s***@hotmail.com
For the record, I went to guitar center today and tried a HSS Deluxe
American Strat with the S1 and SCN pickups. On the second position (
middle and bridge ), both the coils of the humbucker is on ( I use my
keys to tap on the poles ), and so is the middle pickup. I guess they
run all three coils in parallel.
I think this solves the mystery, as least on my end. I have the super
switch on order and I am going to try to run the bridge coils in
parallel, like what is suggested. Thanks.

If this is the case, then, according to the switching logic for this
http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/ADSTRAT_HSS_DLT_2005_UPGRADE/SD010159092APg4.pdf
Also, note that the coils of the bridge humbucker are NEVER configured
in parallel, i.e., it is always a SERIES HUMBUCKER .

[C***@hotmail.com]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
Thanks for the input, I think you are right. I know both coils of the
humbucker is on, but I assume they are running in parallel, which is
obviously wrong from the diagram.
The HSS american deluxe strat at guitar center I've tried has the S1
switch messed up, it cannot be pushed, so I don't know whether it is
stucked in the up or down position.

An excellent example of why NOT to buy this model guitar. That S1
switch will
be a problem down the road; no doubt about it. That wiring diagram is
of little help in troubleshooting a S1-related pickup switching
problem. And when it does fail, replacement
will be a bitch and/or costly. No thank you. I really like the SCN's,
but wiring them
into a standard 5-way switching configuration is fine with me.

[s***@hotmail.com]

Finally I have installed the SCN neck and middle pickups with a
dimarzio humbucker on my strat. When I wired the super switch such
that in the 2 position, the middle pickup is parallel with the bridge
pickup ( both upper and lower coils also in parallel ), I found that
the sound is too weak, volume-vice. I tried taking out the middle
pickup with only the bridge coils in parallel, then and I get a useful,
compatiable sound, more single coilish than humbucker.

Anyone has a good idea on the 2nd position for a HSS strat? Right now
it is okay, but it will be nicer if I can bring the quack back in the
2nd position.

Thanks, Al

_you know what to remove to reply!

[harryj]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
Finally I have installed the SCN neck and middle pickups with a
dimarzio humbucker on my strat. When I wired the super switch such
that in the 2 position, the middle pickup is parallel with the bridge
pickup ( both upper and lower coils also in parallel ), I found that
the sound is too weak, volume-vice. I tried taking out the middle
pickup with only the bridge coils in parallel, then and I get a useful,
compatiable sound, more single coilish than humbucker.
Anyone has a good idea on the 2nd position for a HSS strat? Right now
it is okay, but it will be nicer if I can bring the quack back in the
2nd position.
Thanks, Al
_you know what to remove to reply!

-------

Stacked humbuckers usually don't sound good if the 2 coils are in parallel
as the lower pickup isn't contributing much at all.
Did you try bridge and middle in parallel to each other, with the bridge
coils in parallel and the middle coils in series.

Or cancel the lower coil of the middle, and cancel the opposite polarity of
the humbucker, then turn the bridge pickup around if necessary so the active
coil is closer to the middle. This is my favorite setup and will quack very
well

Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net

[s***@hotmail.com]

The fender new SCNs are not splitable. They only have two wires coming
out ( three if you count the ground shield ). The only thing I can
play with is the bridge pickup, which I can wire them in series or
parallel. I can also do funny things like series the neck and middle
and then parallel the whole thing with the bridge in series. But I
guess there are justn too many possibilities and I don't want to trial
and error. Does anybody has a winning combo?

Al

_you know what to remove to reply!

Post by harryj
Stacked humbuckers usually don't sound good if the 2 coils are in parallel
as the lower pickup isn't contributing much at all.
Did you try bridge and middle in parallel to each other, with the bridge
coils in parallel and the middle coils in series.
Or cancel the lower coil of the middle, and cancel the opposite polarity of
the humbucker, then turn the bridge pickup around if necessary so the active
coil is closer to the middle. This is my favorite setup and will quack very
well

[s***@hotmail.com]

The fender new SCNs are not splitable. They only have two wires coming
out ( three if you count the ground shield ). The only thing I can
play with is the bridge pickup, which I can wire them in series or
parallel. I can also do funny things like series the neck and middle
and then parallel the whole thing with the bridge in series. But I
guess there are justn too many possibilities and I don't want to trial
and error. Does anybody has a winning combo?

Al

_you know what to remove to reply!

Post by harryj
Stacked humbuckers usually don't sound good if the 2 coils are in parallel
as the lower pickup isn't contributing much at all.
Did you try bridge and middle in parallel to each other, with the bridge
coils in parallel and the middle coils in series.
Or cancel the lower coil of the middle, and cancel the opposite polarity of
the humbucker, then turn the bridge pickup around if necessary so the active
coil is closer to the middle. This is my favorite setup and will quack very
well

[harryj]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
The fender new SCNs are not splitable. They only have two wires coming
out ( three if you count the ground shield ). The only thing I can
play with is the bridge pickup, which I can wire them in series or
parallel. I can also do funny things like series the neck and middle
and then parallel the whole thing with the bridge in series. But I
guess there are justn too many possibilities and I don't want to trial
and error. Does anybody has a winning combo?
Al
_you know what to remove to reply!

Post by harryj
Stacked humbuckers usually don't sound good if the 2 coils are in parallel
as the lower pickup isn't contributing much at all.
Did you try bridge and middle in parallel to each other, with the bridge
coils in parallel and the middle coils in series.
Or cancel the lower coil of the middle, and cancel the opposite polarity of
the humbucker, then turn the bridge pickup around if necessary so the active
coil is closer to the middle. This is my favorite setup and will quack very
well

-----------------

Ahh. I misunderstood your previous post. You mentioned a lower and upper
coil in parallel. To me that meant the stacked pickup.

You mention then that the middle in parallel with the bridge with it's coils
wired in parallel was too weak? Was it also a very thin tinny tone? If so
reverse the hot and ground wires. If it was just too low in output... that's
odd. The output of a parallel wired 'bucker shouldn't be that different that
one in single. What is the tone like with the bridge pickup coils wired in
series?

I was looking to see which 'bucker is in there.

HJ

[s***@hotmail.com]

Thanks for your input. Actually, my strat is not a HSS, but SSS. I
installed a dimarzio chopper, a single coil sized humbucker in the
bridge.

I guess the problem is complicated but I will try to explain it. I
guess when you ask me to switch the hot and cold wires, you are
suspecting my middle parallel bridge ( upper and lower coils also in
parallel ) combination is out of phase, right? Hm.. I don't know about
that. It does sound weaker and also thinner. But in the 3rd position,
I tried to do the tele-thing by wiring the neck parallel with the
bridge ( also in parallel ) and its sounds loud and fine, and also
twangy. So I guess the bridge is in phase with the neck. My fourth
position with the regular neck parallel middle is also good. So
basically I suspect that the neck is both in phase with the middle, and
also with the bridge. Now if I reverse either the middle or bridge
coils then I will at least kill one of those positions, right?

My 2nd position is now simply the bridge coils in parallel, sounds
single coilish with reasonable volume as expected ( not as loud as in
when it is in series ), but loud enough to balance with the rest.

Well, maybe I will reverse the bridge and see with happens. What do
you think about the (neck series middle) parallel (bridge in series)
combination? Too loud?

Al

_you know what to remove to reply

[harryj]

The chopper is a nice pickup.
What does the normal series chopper sound like when combined with the
middle?

Regarding the series wiring options, I like them with low powered pup's, can
be too muddy with higher.

I have a number of audio clips using various series options on the gear page
of my site.

Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net

Post by s***@hotmail.com
Thanks for your input. Actually, my strat is not a HSS, but SSS. I
installed a dimarzio chopper, a single coil sized humbucker in the
bridge.
I guess the problem is complicated but I will try to explain it. I
guess when you ask me to switch the hot and cold wires, you are
suspecting my middle parallel bridge ( upper and lower coils also in
parallel ) combination is out of phase, right? Hm.. I don't know about
that. It does sound weaker and also thinner. But in the 3rd position,
I tried to do the tele-thing by wiring the neck parallel with the
bridge ( also in parallel ) and its sounds loud and fine, and also
twangy. So I guess the bridge is in phase with the neck. My fourth
position with the regular neck parallel middle is also good. So
basically I suspect that the neck is both in phase with the middle, and
also with the bridge. Now if I reverse either the middle or bridge
coils then I will at least kill one of those positions, right?
My 2nd position is now simply the bridge coils in parallel, sounds
single coilish with reasonable volume as expected ( not as loud as in
when it is in series ), but loud enough to balance with the rest.
Well, maybe I will reverse the bridge and see with happens. What do
you think about the (neck series middle) parallel (bridge in series)
combination? Too loud?
Al
_you know what to remove to reply

[s***@hotmail.com]

Hm... I've never tried that combination. I will try it with the bridge
in parallel and reversed and see what happens.

Thanks.

[John S. Shinal]

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
You're welcome.

Subliminal advertising at its best: while casually reading
about Strat pickup switching, I suddenly realized it's been a while
since I've had biscuits and gravy, and boy - that sure would be good
for supper. I ought to make some biscuits and gravy. Heh.

Thanks for the (send me a thousand dollars) pickup switching
info - useful stuff.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Biskits n'Gravy]

Post by John S. Shinal

Post by Biskits n'Gravy
You're welcome.

Subliminal advertising at its best: while casually reading
about Strat pickup switching, I suddenly realized it's been a while
since I've had biscuits and gravy, and boy - that sure would be good
for supper. I ought to make some biscuits and gravy. Heh.
Thanks for the (send me a thousand dollars) pickup switching
info - useful stuff.

Glad I could help. And, BTW, I only take CASH....;-)

[harryj]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
I want to change the two single coils in my HSS configration strat with
fender's new SCN pickups, but I cannot figure out how the hum
cancelling works for the second position ( Bridge upper coil parallel
with the middle single coil ).
For traditional pickups, the second position has no hum because the
middle SC and the upper bridge coil have different polarities, and the
60Hz hum from both coils cancel each other ( humbucking ). But with
the new SCN pickup, the middle coil is hum free, and now who is going
to cancel the hum from the upper bridge coil? ( As far as I can tell,
the SCN is not splitable. It has three wires but the middle one is
just ground shield, it hook up just like traditional single coil ).
Any idea?
_you know what to remove to reply!

----------------

First off, if you choose to split the humbucker, you would have to have a
true single with reverse polarity and winding, as you stated to retain hum
canceling qualities.

I don't believe that is an option with the Lawrence / Fender pup's.

I believe the Dimarzio virtual vintage line is the only line that has 4
conductor wiring to allow this.

The only options would be to keep the pup in series, or run the 2 coils in
parallel.

The Schaller Mega switch has limited choices, but a true 4 pole 5 way switch
has tons of possibilities. I'm pretty sure you could wire that up to throw
the bridge in parallel when in combos.

I use them on all of my guitars with 5 way's, and have them doin' some crazy
combos on a few guitars

I have some diagrams, schematics, as well as audio clips for pretty cool
switching, including a S-1 type configuration on the gear page of my site

Here are the combo possibilities for one of 'em
Loading Image...

Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net