How do YOU record?

[Tom C.]

I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks. I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came through
the experience frustrated with the technology. I have a PODxt Live, Adobe
Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio (formerly Fruity Loops). I
started with something really basic, a simple drum track and an acoustic
guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The guitar sounded terrible, and
by the time I was half way through the track the guitar was WAY out of sync
with the drum track (NOT my playing by the way :-) So, do you all do this on
your computers? Do you use a dedicated recording console? Digitial? Tape?
Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- tom c

[PRS GEEK]

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks.

Well, you sorta answered your own question, right there. Those are probably
stereo tracks played and recorded by pros. All ya gotta do is put a good
track on top of it and there you are. How you GET that guitar track on it is
a software issue or something. Many ways to do it but a POD should be good
enough to get you there.

Post by Tom C.
I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came through the
experience frustrated with the technology.

This is why there are no computers in my studio. Except I record to 24
tracks HD. No outside backing tracks. Just mixers, mics, etc...

Post by Tom C.
I have a PODxt Live, Adobe Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio
(formerly Fruity Loops). I started with something really basic, a simple
drum track and an acoustic guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The
guitar sounded terrible, and by the time I was half way through the track
the guitar was WAY out of sync with the drum track (NOT my playing by the
way :-) So, do you all do this on your computers? Do you use a dedicated
recording console? Digitial? Tape? Any pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks. -- tom c

Are you saying, "I can't deal with doing all the music myself, so where can
I get those backing tracks?"... If that's what you're asking, then maybe
"harryj" will chime in and help. I have no idea, but the music is already
written, finished and recorded. All you gotta add is you!

To sound as good as Harry, is a whole other thing tho! ;-)

[-=[Oz]=-]

Here is my setup and it sounds great!!!

Dell Latitude with Creative Lab

Post by PRS GEEK

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks.

Well, you sorta answered your own question, right there. Those are
probably stereo tracks played and recorded by pros. All ya gotta do is put
a good track on top of it and there you are. How you GET that guitar track
on it is a software issue or something. Many ways to do it but a POD
should be good enough to get you there.

Post by Tom C.
I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came through the
experience frustrated with the technology.

This is why there are no computers in my studio. Except I record to 24
tracks HD. No outside backing tracks. Just mixers, mics, etc...

Post by Tom C.
I have a PODxt Live, Adobe Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio
(formerly Fruity Loops). I started with something really basic, a simple
drum track and an acoustic guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The
guitar sounded terrible, and by the time I was half way through the track
the guitar was WAY out of sync with the drum track (NOT my playing by the
way :-) So, do you all do this on your computers? Do you use a dedicated
recording console? Digitial? Tape? Any pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks. -- tom c

Are you saying, "I can't deal with doing all the music myself, so where
can I get those backing tracks?"... If that's what you're asking, then
maybe "harryj" will chime in and help. I have no idea, but the music is
already written, finished and recorded. All you gotta add is you!
To sound as good as Harry, is a whole other thing tho! ;-)
--
Jeff
http://tinyurl.com/8sz9r (all my music created in my basement without
computers).

[-=[Oz]=-]

My setup:

Dell Latitude C640 2.5 GHz / 1 Gig Ram
Creative Labs USB Sound Card with Itrigue 3300 2.1 speakers
Behringer VAmp 2 & Mesa Studio Caliber
Cakewalk Guitar Tracks Pro (32 tracks)
Boss DR3 Dr. Rhythm
Parker P38 with piezo acoustic bridge (This baby is stone cold quiet!!)

When I first started with this recording setup, I would record a ready-made
backing track on one track and then lay my own parts down. This helped me
to keep the various parts on time and in sych!! Later you can mute the
original track or remove it all together.

-=[Oz]=-

Post by PRS GEEK

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks.

Well, you sorta answered your own question, right there. Those are
probably stereo tracks played and recorded by pros. All ya gotta do is put
a good track on top of it and there you are. How you GET that guitar track
on it is a software issue or something. Many ways to do it but a POD
should be good enough to get you there.

Post by Tom C.
I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came through the
experience frustrated with the technology.

This is why there are no computers in my studio. Except I record to 24
tracks HD. No outside backing tracks. Just mixers, mics, etc...

Post by Tom C.
I have a PODxt Live, Adobe Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio
(formerly Fruity Loops). I started with something really basic, a simple
drum track and an acoustic guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The
guitar sounded terrible, and by the time I was half way through the track
the guitar was WAY out of sync with the drum track (NOT my playing by the
way :-) So, do you all do this on your computers? Do you use a dedicated
recording console? Digitial? Tape? Any pointers would be appreciated.
Thanks. -- tom c

Are you saying, "I can't deal with doing all the music myself, so where
can I get those backing tracks?"... If that's what you're asking, then
maybe "harryj" will chime in and help. I have no idea, but the music is
already written, finished and recorded. All you gotta add is you!
To sound as good as Harry, is a whole other thing tho! ;-)
--
Jeff
http://tinyurl.com/8sz9r (all my music created in my basement without
computers).

[Greg Cisko]

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks. I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came
through the experience frustrated with the technology. I have a PODxt Live,
Adobe Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio (formerly Fruity Loops). I
started with something really basic, a simple drum track and an acoustic
guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The guitar sounded terrible, and
by the time I was half way through the track the guitar was WAY out of sync
with the drum track (NOT my playing by the way :-) So, do you all do this
on your computers? Do you use a dedicated recording console? Digitial?
Tape? Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- tom c

I have a ZOOM MRS-8. Much better results than when I used only my
computer. I use 1GB SD cards. You do need about one card per song
for archiving purposes if you care about that sort of thing. I do... You can
do up to 10 takes on each of the 8 tracks and 10 masters. So it is quite
versitile. It cost around $300. Plus you do need to get the bigger memory
cards. I have already posted my website in another thread. But it does
have a song that is almost done. I just need to program the drums. But
that is like sequencing DNA so I am procrastinating.

Anyway you probably don't need to hear it, but if you want email me
and I will send you the link.

[DeeAa]

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks. I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came
through the experience frustrated with the technology. I have a PODxt Live,
Adobe Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio (formerly Fruity Loops). I
started with something really basic, a simple drum track and an acoustic
guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The guitar sounded terrible, and
by the time I was half way through the track the guitar was WAY out of sync
with the drum track (NOT my playing by the way :-) So, do you all do this
on your computers? Do you use a dedicated recording console? Digitial?
Tape? Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- tom c

If your tracks get out of sync that's a souncard hardware or software
problem; there's way too much latency. You need to adjust buffer sizes to
suit the soundcard, which might solve the problem. I found that with some
cheap soundcards I could never get the tracks to align perfectly, they just
lost the sync no matter how they were set.

But anyway; here's my take: I don't use external drum machines. You lose the
control, what you'd like is to get the kick and snare on separate tracks
etc. Also it's hard to adjust them later on, whereas a midi-driven drum
machine on the PC - you can change sounds and positions and whatever right
until the final mix.

Here's my setup:

DBX 376 mic preamp/DA converter onto PC. All the hardware I need in addition
to a microphone naturally, and any guitar gear or whatever you play with. I
use Marshall JMP-1 and a Cream Machine.

Soft:

Cubase with a sample player in VST chain, such as NI's Kontakt or Battery or
whatever.
Then I load some drum samples in, MDK, DFK, whatever, or some samples I've
made myself

Then just make some klick tracks, play over it, add drums, bass, whatever
you need, until you have a full song.
Creating a basic drum track, once you've built a set or two, takes maybe
10-20 minutes. Then I lose the click, as I don't always play straight
rhytms, and 'play' in the drums to achieve a natural feel, attack etc. so it
doesn't happen quantized like with drum machines.

Sometimes I may tinker with a drum track for hours, sometimes it's just a
matter of minutes. Depends what you want.

But I don't know why should ready-made backing tracks be used at all...why
not just make some yourself?

Here's one project I did with the above setup (exept I didn't have the DBX
but just a cheapo Behringer board and some compressors etc. and I used the
soundcard to convert to digital which sucked...and anyway, it leaves a lot
to be desired. But at least it was done cheap, and with basically almost
nothing but a PC and me&my guitar.

http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/deeaa

[Trevor Hyde]

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to
backing tracks. I actually tried some recording on my home computer
and came through the experience frustrated with the technology. I have
a PODxt Live, Adobe Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio
(formerly Fruity Loops). I started with something really basic, a
simple drum track and an acoustic guitar track. The drum track sounded
fine. The guitar sounded terrible, and by the time I was half way
through the track the guitar was WAY out of sync with the drum track
(NOT my playing by the way :-) So, do you all do this on your
computers? Do you use a dedicated recording console? Digitial? Tape?
Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- tom c

I will chime in with the super-cheap method I used to get tunes to my
band. The sound was not pro quality, but it produced a fairly good
sounding mp3 without any digital artifacts or nasty clipping. For
software I used a freeware software package called Audacity, which did a
very respectable job multitracking. No problems with getting out of sync.
I used a super cheap Aiwa DM-H15 microphone plugged directly into the mic
input of a SoundBlaster Live card on a PC with 512mb RAM and an Athlon XP
1800+. The guitar and bass tracks were recorded by miking (I dangled the
mike over the front of the amp) a 5 watt Ax84 P1 amp with a 1964 Jensen
C12R speaker. Nice low wattage amp with a great tone; even the bass
sounded really full on the recording. I play hand percussion (congas,
djembes, etc.), so I did not bother with a drum synth. I recorded both
with headphones and with speakers playing the tracks, which added a
pleasant echo.

[mike pritchard]

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks. I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came through
the experience frustrated with the technology. I have a PODxt Live, Adobe
Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio (formerly Fruity Loops). I
started with something really basic, a simple drum track and an acoustic
guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The guitar sounded terrible, and
by the time I was half way through the track the guitar was WAY out of sync
with the drum track (NOT my playing by the way :-) So, do you all do this on
your computers? Do you use a dedicated recording console? Digitial? Tape?
Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- tom c

I haven't posted anything of mine in years....I used to use a mini-disc 4 track
recorder. I've recently upgraded to a Tascam 2488. Now, if only I could find
the time to *record* something! (grin)

Personally, I don't care for computer recording systems. I've used Protrack,
X-Tracker and a radio production program called SAW.

I want faders that I can get my mitts on. That's how I learned the business
back in the 70's and I suppose I'm too stubborn to change. I only use the
computer based systems when I'm at work, and have no choice.

Mike

[[e-mail]]

I've recorded some covers just for fun by downloading the midi file and
playing to it. Depending on how good a wavetable synth you have and how
good the midi file is, it can sound pretty convincing. I even did the
same for some of my guitar students so they could get a feel for the
recording process and see how the different guitar parts worked with
each other. "Unforgiven" was an especially popular one for them to play
to. When working on original music, I've used Band in a Box to play the
rhythm parts while I recorded guitar parts and then went back and
recorded bass parts and live drums. There's no drummer that can play
tempos that evenly. I started out with just a Zoom 505 and a Radio
Shack mic going into my soundcard. Now I use a Roland VM3100Pro going
into a RPC PCI card I also have a Edirol UA-100 and UM-2 midi
interface.

Thomas
www.yourhomestudio.com

Free Home Studio Newsletter - ***@yourhomestudio.com

[R***@faa.gov]

Post by mike pritchard
I haven't posted anything of mine in years....I used to use a mini-disc 4 track
recorder. I've recently upgraded to a Tascam 2488. Now, if only I could find
the time to *record* something! (grin)

I use a 2488 also. Making time is the hard part, I agree. I try to
get one day a weekend in there and usually do.

Post by mike pritchard
Personally, I don't care for computer recording systems. I've used Protrack,
X-Tracker and a radio production program called SAW.

I have no experience with computer recording systems outside of the
slow, tortured death of watching others time align drum trax and look
at frequency charts. I learned a long time ago that THAT is not what
music is supposed to be at all, that when you stop listening and start
looking at a damn k0mput3r screen you are in trouble.

Post by mike pritchard
I want faders that I can get my mitts on. That's how I learned the business
back in the 70's and I suppose I'm too stubborn to change.

Yeah me too.

Post by mike pritchard
I only use the computer based systems when I'm at work, and have no choice.

I don't work in the music business but I do work in the computer
business and I hate the damn things all day long, 4 days a week. I
don't want them near my guitars.

[Tom C.]

I share this sentiment below and that's exactly why I'm looking for an
alternative to computer recording. Thanks everyone for your
recommendations. -- tom c (original poster)

Post by R***@faa.gov
I don't work in the music business but I do work in the computer
business and I hate the damn things all day long, 4 days a week. I
don't want them near my guitars.

[[e-mail]]

I guess it's because I've never recorded any other way, but computer
recording is the only way to go for me. I have a AW2816 that has
motorized faders but I would much rather draw in the volumes on Sonar
because I can be much more precise. There are midi controllers out
there that give you that tactile feedback but I'm not sure I would even
do that. I use a roller ball rather than a mouse and I'm very
comfortable with that.

Just my 2 cents,

Thomas
www.yourhomestudio.com

Free Home Studio Newsletter - ***@yourhomestudio.com

[R***@faa.gov]

Post by Tom C.
I share this sentiment below and that's exactly why I'm looking for an
alternative to computer recording. Thanks everyone for your
recommendations. -- tom c (original poster)

Well, I use the 2488, which you don't have to get nearly as elaborate
or expensive, 16 tracks is gettin real cheap these days. I use a Boss
DR-880 for drums. It sounds outstanding, is reasonably easy to program
when you have to, and has hundreds of useable just as they are patterns
if you are in a hurry. A Roland Fantom Xa for keys, buncha guitars and
a really sporty new JBass. Some rack shite like compressors and eq
thingies and stuff. Don't need no damn computers in that room, I got
enough trouble with the kittens getting in there. Don't believe any of
the current apparent hype that you can't do without a few grand wortha
laptop, it just isn't true. Good luck with it. It is a whole heapa
fun to do it all yourself.

[Les Cargill]

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I haven't posted anything of mine in years....I used to use a mini-disc 4 track
recorder. I've recently upgraded to a Tascam 2488. Now, if only I could find
the time to *record* something! (grin)

I use a 2488 also. Making time is the hard part, I agree. I try to
get one day a weekend in there and usually do.

Post by mike pritchard
Personally, I don't care for computer recording systems. I've used Protrack,
X-Tracker and a radio production program called SAW.

I have no experience with computer recording systems outside of the
slow, tortured death of watching others time align drum trax and look
at frequency charts. I learned a long time ago that THAT is not what
music is supposed to be at all, that when you stop listening and start
looking at a damn k0mput3r screen you are in trouble.

Nuh uh. Don't do that. The thing's a cheap 4-track that does
a bazillion tracks with cheep reverbs, kompressors and EQ*.
It's also a drum machine that you cannot tell from the
real thing, if you do it right.

*reverbs which include convolution reproductions of various
stuff that costs a house and real spaces, kompressors that
are better than anything made outta solder and parts, and
perfectly linear phase IIR & FIR EQ.

I don't even do punchins anymore. I will compose
a lead track outta a few takes, but even that
starts to suck the life outta it rather quickly.
It's better to start over. If I can't
get it in three tries, <delete>, maybe another day.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I want faders that I can get my mitts on. That's how I learned the business
back in the 70's and I suppose I'm too stubborn to change.

Yeah me too.

Actually, once you get used to drawing the curves,
you'll never go back. Only thing I'd use faders for is
tailing off the ring out at the end, anyway, and
maybe punching up something now and again.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I only use the computer based systems when I'm at work, and have no choice.

I don't work in the music business but I do work in the computer
business and I hate the damn things all day long, 4 days a week. I
don't want them near my guitars.

Heh. Y'know that PoD a' yourn? It'll patch
right into the PeeCee S/PDIF.

You are not of the Body. You will be... absorbed.

--
Les Cargill

[R***@faa.gov]

Post by Les Cargill
Nuh uh. Don't do that. The thing's a cheap 4-track

I have a cheap TWENTY 4 track.

Post by Les Cargill
that does a bazillion tracks

I'll only get 24 + 8 live mixed down to two. Or, 24 + 256 virtuals
mixed down to two. It isn't much, but I think I'll manage for the
forseeable future or the rest of my life.

Post by Les Cargill
with cheep reverbs, kompressors and EQ*.

I have cheep reverbs, kompressors and EQ*.

Post by Les Cargill
It's also a drum machine that you cannot tell from the
real thing, if you do it right.

I have a drum machine that doesn't even require you to do it right and
you cannot tell from the real thing.

Post by Les Cargill
*reverbs which include convolution reproductions of various
stuff that costs a house and real spaces, kompressors that
are better than anything made outta solder and parts, and
perfectly linear phase IIR & FIR EQ.

*Ever notice that the "cheap" processing that a k0mput4r does is
somehow ok, but actually owning a half a dozen cheap processors and
just using whatever works or even doesn't, isn't? It's amazing.

Post by Les Cargill
I don't even do punchins anymore. I will compose
a lead track outta a few takes, but even that
starts to suck the life outta it rather quickly.

I just start over.

Post by Les Cargill
It's better to start over.

I know.

Post by Les Cargill
If I can't get it in three tries, <delete>, maybe another day.

Same here, same as it ever was for me, don't need a computer to do
that, never did.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I want faders that I can get my mitts on. That's how I learned the business
back in the 70's and I suppose I'm too stubborn to change.

Yeah me too.

Actually, once you get used to drawing the curves,
you'll never go back. Only thing I'd use faders for is
tailing off the ring out at the end, anyway, and
maybe punching up something now and again.

I think that the use of the phrase regarding faders was really just a
metaphor for "I''d prefer to use a piece of equipment that is designed
and dedicated to making recordings as opposed to using the same piece
fo friggin shit that I do for every goddamn thing ELSE in my life,
including earning the big bucks so I can buy this here good musically
type thingies stuff". Maybe. Faders are nice, it is even nicer to not
be looking at the same hunk of MicroGarbage that I just spent the week
looking at.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I only use the computer based systems when I'm at work, and have no choice.

I don't work in the music business but I do work in the computer
business and I hate the damn things all day long, 4 days a week. I
don't want them near my guitars.

Heh. Y'know that PoD a' yourn? It'll patch
right into the PeeCee S/PDIF.

I don't own a p0d. I do own a V-Amp. It'll patch pretty much right
into anything I want, including the recording device.

Post by Les Cargill
You are not of the Body. You will be... absorbed.

Nope. Your opinions and experience are, of course, respected and not
to be discounted by me or anyone else reading this. I am pleased that
what works for you all week long also works for you in that special
place called Music Room, Studio, whatever.

Remember this, I am there to relax, enjoy doing what I have enjoyed
doing since I was 11 years old, and not have anyone at all to answer to
except me. I am under no deadlines, no pressures to get it out because
I set time frames, if someone wants something they wait for it and so
far, it has not failed me to be that way. Not that a computer is going
to get me all that much more speed anyway, so that angle isn't valid
for me.

I have a slammin drum machine that does some pretty great stuff,
especially coupled with some of the cheapo processing that is available
outside of Intel and Apple. I have a REALLY nice keyboard that I could
spend the rest of my days fiddlin with and never get to the end of it.
A great bunch of guitars and amps, and some decent digital/direct
stuff. I A/B things out to the amp and over to the rack and take both
so I always have stereo, one clean/one dirty, whatever. Same for the
bass. Keys and drums are even easier to get down in stereo, they
already do it!

I don't punch nothin in, I either take it or I don't. If I did
something THAT good, but it got wrecked over here, I'll just learn what
it was I did that was THAT good and do it again. I did play it after
all, so I can pretty much copy myself better than anyone else.

I don't spend countless hours and days fretting over the slight mid
hump at 2k, or that my low end gating isn't exactly at 100hz, or that
my room causes my 10-12k range to be slightly weak. That is bullshit,
plain and simple, and is best left to people that got nothing musically
to do, so they sit around sniffing technical corks, pretending they are
experts at something they aren't even really doing. Because you can't
make music and think about all that dumb shit at the same time.

Recording music was never Rocket Surgery and it never will be. All of
my life we went to places that were designed to do that, had the
machines to do it and the rooms to do it in. Now, I have my own room
to do it in, and I have machines that do it. I either like the results
or I don't. If I don't, I do it until I do, or until I move on to the
next idea that just can't wait to get out. For those things, I need no
computers, because I'm just not that worried about the un-hearable
things it seems people get all tangled up in. I'm not making and
selling records, I'm doing, finally, what I and only I want to do. I
think most others are doing the same, and I think some folks need to
say that you don't really have to have a slammin couplea grande wortha
GMac. IMac. Whatever.

Early January I will begin covering Dear Prudence. I will be using the
keys to sample, well, uh, Prudence. Broadsways Prudence
Morro-Thompson, to be exact. She is a nine month old Maine Coon, an
absolute delight to be around, and she likes the Music Room. Sampling
a kitten is not easy. I don't think a computer could even help with
that.

Rock on.

[Les Cargill]

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
Nuh uh. Don't do that. The thing's a cheap 4-track

I have a cheap TWENTY 4 track.

I meant the PeeCee. Obviously, the 2488 is a 24 track, and
the Peecee is a "4-track" in function only.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
that does a bazillion tracks

I'll only get 24 + 8 live mixed down to two. Or, 24 + 256 virtuals
mixed down to two. It isn't much, but I think I'll manage for the
forseeable future or the rest of my life.

Heard that. I did indeed look at one a' them, but
found I could get closer to what I want
with the PeeCee. 'Course, I do a great deal of
MIDI stuff.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
with cheep reverbs, kompressors and EQ*.

I have cheep reverbs, kompressors and EQ*.

Post by Les Cargill
It's also a drum machine that you cannot tell from the
real thing, if you do it right.

I have a drum machine that doesn't even require you to do it right and
you cannot tell from the real thing.

Nice li'l box.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
*reverbs which include convolution reproductions of various
stuff that costs a house and real spaces, kompressors that
are better than anything made outta solder and parts, and
perfectly linear phase IIR & FIR EQ.

*Ever notice that the "cheap" processing that a k0mput4r does is
somehow ok, but actually owning a half a dozen cheap processors and
just using whatever works or even doesn't, isn't? It's amazing.

That's because the plugin writing guys have box envy, and
overbuild the cheap plugins. And FWIW, either is fine
by me, but I figure I spent about ... $200 on plugins
(most are free ) that would take me a *whole* lot of money to
replace with boxes, if you could at all.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
I don't even do punchins anymore. I will compose
a lead track outta a few takes, but even that
starts to suck the life outta it rather quickly.

I just start over.

Post by Les Cargill
It's better to start over.

I know.

Yeah.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
If I can't get it in three tries, <delete>, maybe another day.

Same here, same as it ever was for me, don't need a computer to do
that, never did.

Nope.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I want faders that I can get my mitts on. That's how I learned the business
back in the 70's and I suppose I'm too stubborn to change.

Yeah me too.

Actually, once you get used to drawing the curves,
you'll never go back. Only thing I'd use faders for is
tailing off the ring out at the end, anyway, and
maybe punching up something now and again.

I think that the use of the phrase regarding faders was really just a
metaphor for "I''d prefer to use a piece of equipment that is designed
and dedicated to making recordings as opposed to using the same piece
fo friggin shit that I do for every goddamn thing ELSE in my life,
including earning the big bucks so I can buy this here good musically
type thingies stuff". Maybe. Faders are nice, it is even nicer to not
be looking at the same hunk of MicroGarbage that I just spent the week
looking at.

Unnerstand, unnerstand.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I only use the computer based systems when I'm at work, and have no choice.

I don't work in the music business but I do work in the computer
business and I hate the damn things all day long, 4 days a week. I
don't want them near my guitars.

Heh. Y'know that PoD a' yourn? It'll patch
right into the PeeCee S/PDIF.

I don't own a p0d. I do own a V-Amp. It'll patch pretty much right
into anything I want, including the recording device.

Oh. That's right. Oops.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
You are not of the Body. You will be... absorbed.

Nope. Your opinions and experience are, of course, respected and not
to be discounted by me or anyone else reading this.

Not that that matters. :) The PeeCee thing
occupies a very special spot on the bang-for-buck curve.

Then again, I am enthralled by things like the convolution
reverbs and such. That stuff is pretty Magickal.

Post by R***@faa.gov
I am pleased that
what works for you all week long also works for you in that special
place called Music Room, Studio, whatever.

Yeah.

Post by R***@faa.gov
Remember this, I am there to relax, enjoy doing what I have enjoyed
doing since I was 11 years old, and not have anyone at all to answer to
except me. I am under no deadlines, no pressures to get it out because
I set time frames, if someone wants something they wait for it and so
far, it has not failed me to be that way. Not that a computer is going
to get me all that much more speed anyway, so that angle isn't valid
for me.

Nah. That's a false hope, there ( for all microphone stuff ) .
With MIDI, it's different, because there be tricks one can
play. Thee PeeCee will cost more time, guaranteed.

FWIW, when I record other people or acoustic , I
use a standalone, a little Fostex that syncs with
the PeeCee.

But the sheer value of the plugins is pretty incredible.

Post by R***@faa.gov
I have a slammin drum machine that does some pretty great stuff,
especially coupled with some of the cheapo processing that is available
outside of Intel and Apple. I have a REALLY nice keyboard that I could
spend the rest of my days fiddlin with and never get to the end of it.

I am telling you - most of 'em are that way.

Post by R***@faa.gov
A great bunch of guitars and amps, and some decent digital/direct
stuff. I A/B things out to the amp and over to the rack and take both
so I always have stereo, one clean/one dirty, whatever. Same for the
bass. Keys and drums are even easier to get down in stereo, they
already do it!

Yeah buddy.

Post by R***@faa.gov
I don't punch nothin in, I either take it or I don't. If I did
something THAT good, but it got wrecked over here, I'll just learn what
it was I did that was THAT good and do it again. I did play it after
all, so I can pretty much copy myself better than anyone else.
I don't spend countless hours and days fretting over the slight mid
hump at 2k, or that my low end gating isn't exactly at 100hz, or that
my room causes my 10-12k range to be slightly weak. That is bullshit,
plain and simple, and is best left to people that got nothing musically
to do, so they sit around sniffing technical corks, pretending they are
experts at something they aren't even really doing. Because you can't
make music and think about all that dumb shit at the same time.

This is very true. I don't usually mess much with things - I
have a standard set of things I do. I do those,
do a tweak or two, print the mix, go to the next t00n.

If it really gags me in the cah goin' backnforth to work,
I remix it. 'Course I can remix it from the saved
last mix, so....

But yeah, one should not over do this stuff. At all.

Post by R***@faa.gov
Recording music was never Rocket Surgery and it never will be.

It *can* be. That part can be fun, too.

Post by R***@faa.gov
All of
my life we went to places that were designed to do that, had the
machines to do it and the rooms to do it in. Now, I have my own room
to do it in, and I have machines that do it. I either like the results
or I don't. If I don't, I do it until I do, or until I move on to the
next idea that just can't wait to get out. For those things, I need no
computers, because I'm just not that worried about the un-hearable
things it seems people get all tangled up in. I'm not making and
selling records, I'm doing, finally, what I and only I want to do. I
think most others are doing the same, and I think some folks need to
say that you don't really have to have a slammin couplea grande wortha
GMac. IMac. Whatever.

I have way more in the keyboard, guitars, basses, amps, mics
and preamps than in the 'puter. Way more. Say:

- $500 for the PeeCee
- $50 for N-Track.
- $200 for plugins
- $700 for the standalone Fostex.

Post by R***@faa.gov
Early January I will begin covering Dear Prudence. I will be using the
keys to sample, well, uh, Prudence. Broadsways Prudence
Morro-Thompson, to be exact. She is a nine month old Maine Coon, an
absolute delight to be around, and she likes the Music Room. Sampling
a kitten is not easy. I don't think a computer could even help with
that.

Mumble mumble single ended noise reduction mumble mumble.

Post by R***@faa.gov
Rock on.

Indeed, indeed.

--
Les Cargill

[R***@faa.gov]

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
I'll only get 24 + 8 live mixed down to two. Or, 24 + 256 virtuals
mixed down to two. It isn't much, but I think I'll manage for the
forseeable future or the rest of my life.

Heard that. I did indeed look at one a' them, but
found I could get closer to what I want
with the PeeCee. 'Course, I do a great deal of
MIDI stuff.

Yes, that would be the rub. I fear the MIDI, have since it's
introduction to the unwashed T/S/LP into M crowd. I fear it to this
day, do not understand it, nor do I want to spend a minute or three
even thinking about it. I commend you for your intrepid use of such
radical t3kn0l0g33.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
*Ever notice that the "cheap" processing that a k0mput4r does is
somehow ok, but actually owning a half a dozen cheap processors and
just using whatever works or even doesn't, isn't? It's amazing.

That's because the plugin writing guys have box envy, and
overbuild the cheap plugins. And FWIW, either is fine
by me, but I figure I spent about ... $200 on plugins
(most are free ) that would take me a *whole* lot of money to
replace with boxes, if you could at all.

I have to agree with you. My experience with the software stuff isn't
at all what it should be I guess, but I always am impressed by what the
plugins can do, and what the people that use them can do with them.
And they are considerably less money if you don't count the gawddamned
1nt3l box stuck to them.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
Nope. Your opinions and experience are, of course, respected and not
to be discounted by me or anyone else reading this.

Not that that matters. :)

It does. Don't want no little tykes thinkin I'm debunkin whatever you
say. I'm not.

Post by Les Cargill
The PeeCee thing occupies a very special spot on the bang-for-buck curve.

I think so too, if one is inclined that way. I do think we may end up
with one at home here in the next...year or so maybe. Hard to believe
that both of us are in the computer world all day and we still don't
have one at home. The iPods make it more palatable for me. I guess if
I had one going already and I didn't mind mucking in it I'd probably
have one in there with the guitars.

Post by Les Cargill
Then again, I am enthralled by things like the convolution
reverbs and such. That stuff is pretty Magickal.

I have to agree again, that stuff IS pretty Magical when I see others
using them. It.

Post by Les Cargill
Not that a computer is going
to get me all that much more speed anyway, so that angle isn't valid
for me.
Nah. That's a false hope, there ( for all microphone stuff ) .

Yeah, of this I am sure, nothing will make that stuff go any faster
ever.

Post by Les Cargill
With MIDI, it's different, because there be tricks one can
play. Thee PeeCee will cost more time, guaranteed.

I will defer to you and trail blazing explorers like you. I am the
Archie Bunker of MIDI.

Post by Les Cargill
FWIW, when I record other people or acoustic , I
use a standalone, a little Fostex that syncs with
the PeeCee.

Remarkable. They say the 2488 can hook up to this here infernal damn
thing via EwEssBee. I am afraid to hook it up, so I never will.

Post by Les Cargill
But the sheer value of the plugins is pretty incredible.

I completely agree and am amazed every time I see competent use of
them.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
I have a REALLY nice keyboard that I could
spend the rest of my days fiddlin with and never get to the end of it.

I am telling you - most of 'em are that way.

Isn't that spectacular? These young folks are very fortunate to have
these things.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
...Because you can't
make music and think about all that dumb shit at the same time.

This is very true. I don't usually mess much with things - I
have a standard set of things I do. I do those,
do a tweak or two, print the mix, go to the next t00n.

Same here. Unfortunately, early in the computer recording era, I
witness time alignment and frequency fixing first hand, on my material,
done by my band, on our money. I hated every damn minute of it and it
amounted to zero net improvement, we just did them over. I hate
overtweaking of anything, but most especially of music.

Post by Les Cargill
If it really gags me in the cah goin' backnforth to work,
I remix it. 'Course I can remix it from the saved
last mix, so....

Yes, same here. Car, then the little CD player in the bedroom,
followed by the CD player in the music room, and finally, iPod. I
probably have a bit more to go through to remix than yer average
Eproducer, but I'm ok with that.

Post by Les Cargill
But yeah, one should not over do this stuff. At all.

It is the hardest thing to get across to new folks that experience
music from primarily a visual point of view. It isn't a visual art at
all.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
Recording music was never Rocket Surgery and it never will be.

It *can* be. That part can be fun, too.

You know, I can see the curmudgeonliness of my original sentence, and I
retract it. Yes, it really is a hoot to do all that stuff, and I
really do spend sometimes ridiculous amounts of time fooling around
with the Rocket Surgery of recording a sound. But when it comes down
to getting some music out and on tape as we say, I just go and don't
worry about that stuff.

Post by Les Cargill
I have way more in the keyboard, guitars, basses, amps, mics
- $500 for the PeeCee
- $50 for N-Track.
- $200 for plugins
- $700 for the standalone Fostex.

Well yeah, you do have some idea what yer doin. Far too many yungins
are using 99 dollar Rogues into 2500 dollar Powerbooks, wondering how
to get that high end sheen on their trax. Dewd.

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
Early January I will begin covering Dear Prudence. I will be using the
keys to sample, well, uh, Prudence. Broadsways Prudence
Morro-Thompson, to be exact. She is a nine month old Maine Coon, an
absolute delight to be around, and she likes the Music Room. Sampling
a kitten is not easy. I don't think a computer could even help with
that.

Mumble mumble single ended noise reduction mumble mumble.

DAMN IT LES I NEED HELP HERE

[DeeAa]

Post by R***@faa.gov
I have a drum machine that doesn't even require you to do it right and
you cannot tell from the real thing.

Now THAT I'd like to hear. What is it?

[R***@faa.gov]

Post by DeeAa

Post by R***@faa.gov
I have a drum machine that doesn't even require you to do it right and
you cannot tell from the real thing.

Now THAT I'd like to hear. What is it?

Boss DR-880. Go try one at the store, probably through headphones is
about all you'll get, but try it just the same. Outstanding thingy.

[PRS GEEK]

<***@faa.gov> wrote in message news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

(snipped some Ron and Les)

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
I don't even do punchins anymore. I will compose
a lead track outta a few takes, but even that
starts to suck the life outta it rather quickly.

I just start over.

I agree, but sometimes starting over can be a pain. I have a footswitch that
I can use to do a manual punch. That can be kinda cool if you want to keep
the first part but not the second.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
It's better to start over.

I know.

Post by Les Cargill
If I can't get it in three tries, <delete>, maybe another day.

Same here, same as it ever was for me, don't need a computer to do
that, never did.

Sometimes I write stuff that has an odd progression and I never rehearsed a
lead part for that progression, so I turn on the record button, take a few
whacks to see what sticks. Sometimes I get something really cool and I want
to keep it then I have to punch if I mess up later.

I admit, I have spent way to much time punching before. However, when I end
up doing something different than I've ever done I've just learned something
new. Recording has made me a better musician.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by mike pritchard
I want faders that I can get my mitts on. That's how I learned the business
back in the 70's and I suppose I'm too stubborn to change.

Yeah me too.

Actually, once you get used to drawing the curves,
you'll never go back. Only thing I'd use faders for is
tailing off the ring out at the end, anyway, and
maybe punching up something now and again.

I'm still a lot like Ron, but my mind knows things can be faster with this
computer stuff. Now that I've had to do SO much all by myself I see the
advantages of software, but my brain is completely analog. Not sure if I'll
ever take the plunge.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill

Post by R***@faa.gov
I don't work in the music business but I do work in the computer
business and I hate the damn things all day long, 4 days a week. I
don't want them near my guitars.

I sorta feel the same. But I also think of myself as a dinosaur and I don't
like that. I mean, my ego doesn't like that. I wanna be young and all that.
I suppose, but I'm not.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
Heh. Y'know that PoD a' yourn? It'll patch
right into the PeeCee S/PDIF.

I don't own a p0d. I do own a V-Amp. It'll patch pretty much right
into anything I want, including the recording device.

As much as we bash the POD here, I have a POD Pro in my studio rack and I
use it to scratch trax on every tune. Occasionally, I'll keep one of them.
Shit, if anything, there's no better way to find out what "real" amp sound
will work by just twisting a knob on the red box. I can get most of the real
sounds with my amps, but I don't wanna mic them up till I'm really ready for
a keeper.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by Les Cargill
You are not of the Body. You will be... absorbed.

I'm absorbed when I'm in my studio, computers notwithstanding.

Post by R***@faa.gov
I don't punch nothin in, I either take it or I don't. If I did
something THAT good, but it got wrecked over here, I'll just learn what
it was I did that was THAT good and do it again. I did play it after
all, so I can pretty much copy myself better than anyone else.

For me, that might take as long or longer as punching stuff in... ;-)

Post by R***@faa.gov
I don't spend countless hours and days fretting over the slight mid
hump at 2k, or that my low end gating isn't exactly at 100hz, or that
my room causes my 10-12k range to be slightly weak. That is bullshit,
plain and simple, and is best left to people that got nothing musically
to do, so they sit around sniffing technical corks, pretending they are
experts at something they aren't even really doing. Because you can't
make music and think about all that dumb shit at the same time.

I feel that way too, so I usually only worry about that when I "think" the
tune is done, then EQ time. If that doesn't work I might re-do a part.

Post by R***@faa.gov
Early January I will begin covering Dear Prudence. I will be using the
keys to sample, well, uh, Prudence. Broadsways Prudence
Morro-Thompson, to be exact. She is a nine month old Maine Coon, an
absolute delight to be around, and she likes the Music Room. Sampling
a kitten is not easy. I don't think a computer could even help with
that.

You need to post that when it's done...

Jeff

[R***@faa.gov]

Post by PRS GEEK

Post by R***@faa.gov
I just start over.

I agree, but sometimes starting over can be a pain. I have a footswitch that
I can use to do a manual punch. That can be kinda cool if you want to keep
the first part but not the second.

Yeah, I couldn't live without the footswitcheroo thingy down there, it
makes it much easier by your self. I still don't punch in much at all
if I can avoid it.

Post by PRS GEEK
Sometimes I write stuff that has an odd progression and I never rehearsed a
lead part for that progression, so I turn on the record button, take a few
whacks to see what sticks. Sometimes I get something really cool and I want
to keep it then I have to punch if I mess up later.

That works just fine. I usually have the part in my head for a week
before I go in there and play it a few times.

Post by PRS GEEK
I admit, I have spent way to much time punching before. However, when I end
up doing something different than I've ever done I've just learned something
new. Recording has made me a better musician.

Oh I agree, me too.

Post by PRS GEEK
I sorta feel the same. But I also think of myself as a dinosaur and I don't
like that. I mean, my ego doesn't like that. I wanna be young and all that.
I suppose, but I'm not.

Bahh. Just do it is all, that'll keep you young.

Post by PRS GEEK

Post by R***@faa.gov
Early January I will begin covering Dear Prudence. I will be using the
keys to sample, well, uh, Prudence. Broadsways Prudence
Morro-Thompson, to be exact. She is a nine month old Maine Coon, an
absolute delight to be around, and she likes the Music Room. Sampling
a kitten is not easy. I don't think a computer could even help with
that.

You need to post that when it's done...

Heh. No, I don't do the post yer clips thingy, never have, never will
thank you. And especially not something that I have to go throught the
hoops to get done legally in the event I even distribute one copy of.

[PRS GEEK]

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by PRS GEEK

Post by R***@faa.gov
I just start over.

I agree, but sometimes starting over can be a pain. I have a footswitch that
I can use to do a manual punch. That can be kinda cool if you want to keep
the first part but not the second.

Yeah, I couldn't live without the footswitcheroo thingy down there, it
makes it much easier by your self. I still don't punch in much at all
if I can avoid it.

I know man... I still hate it. Just one more thing to have to do _all by
yourself_.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by PRS GEEK
Sometimes I write stuff that has an odd progression and I never rehearsed a
lead part for that progression, so I turn on the record button, take a few
whacks to see what sticks. Sometimes I get something really cool and I want
to keep it then I have to punch if I mess up later.

That works just fine. I usually have the part in my head for a week
before I go in there and play it a few times.

What's weird is I don't hear the lead guitar melody lines in my head till I
get there. I generally write the chord progressions, then I pick the
progression for a solo, then I record the tune and "make" a solo later.
However, I've probably done some scratch stuff with the drum machine before
hand and done some soloing and revert back to anything that worked when I'm
doing the real song. If that makes sense.

Like you, I know other people that can do what you do and my mind doesn't
work that way.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by PRS GEEK
I admit, I have spent way to much time punching before. However, when I end
up doing something different than I've ever done I've just learned something
new. Recording has made me a better musician.

Oh I agree, me too.

Cuz when yer playing live, you just whack them out with no thought. I find I
wank a lot live, but my own stuff ends up being much more song oriented.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by PRS GEEK
I sorta feel the same. But I also think of myself as a dinosaur and I don't
like that. I mean, my ego doesn't like that. I wanna be young and all that.
I suppose, but I'm not.

Bahh. Just do it is all, that'll keep you young.

Editing "seems" to be easier with software. Sometimes it can take me 6
months to start and finish a tune. That's just too much time. Instead of
editing, I redo parts till they are to my liking.

Post by R***@faa.gov

Post by PRS GEEK

Post by R***@faa.gov
Early January I will begin covering Dear Prudence. I will be using the
keys to sample, well, uh, Prudence. Broadsways Prudence
Morro-Thompson, to be exact. She is a nine month old Maine Coon, an
absolute delight to be around, and she likes the Music Room. Sampling
a kitten is not easy. I don't think a computer could even help with
that.

You need to post that when it's done...

Heh. No, I don't do the post yer clips thingy, never have, never will
thank you. And especially not something that I have to go throught the
hoops to get done legally in the event I even distribute one copy of.

Yeah, I know, but I'd still like to hear it some time. That's one of my
favorite all time songs and I think it would be great to cover.

Jeff

[iliace]

Post by Tom C.
I know this is a huge topic, but I really want to know how the various
posters here make these great recordings of themselves jamming to backing
tracks. I actually tried some recording on my home computer and came through
the experience frustrated with the technology. I have a PODxt Live, Adobe
Audition and a drum synth called FL Studio (formerly Fruity Loops). I
started with something really basic, a simple drum track and an acoustic
guitar track. The drum track sounded fine. The guitar sounded terrible, and
by the time I was half way through the track the guitar was WAY out of sync
with the drum track (NOT my playing by the way :-) So, do you all do this on
your computers? Do you use a dedicated recording console? Digitial? Tape?
Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- tom c

I use a Korg D1600 for recording, and Sonar 4 Producer for both
recording and mixing. My recordings were never pro-grade,
http://www.44lbs.net/download.htm if you're curious.

The trick to avoid timing issues is to have a clicktrack going
throughout your recording. It has to be programmed to all your tempo
and/or time signature changes. This also allows to orient yourself
using measures/beats rather than SMPTE time, which makes editing and
punching easier. If you're using looped drums, it behooves you to know
what time/tempo those are in.

Here are some reflections I wrote on my recent recording experience, if
you're looking for pointers:

http://www.gnx4.org/archive/intro-to-digital-recording/
http://www.gnx4.org/archive/a-closer-look-at-the-recording-process/

Hope it helps.

- Ilia