Mesa Boogie Express 5:25 - opinions please

Post by Metebelis
I have tried a number of amps in my search for good valve ( tube ) tone
Fender Deville and Hot Rod series
Laney Lionheart
Ephiphone Blues Custom 30 (and the Grainger copy)
but I have decided that the Mesa Boogie Express 5:25 (the most expensive)
sounds the best.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Express/Express.htm
Any comments on this amp or alternative suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
www.metebelis.co.uk

Best bedroom amp there is:
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--MSHJHSTACK

Sacramento Dave

2007-12-01 15:45:28 UTC

Post by M***@disney.com
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--MSHJHSTACK

Would that be the bedroom 2 doors down?

Sacramento Dave

2007-12-01 15:43:22 UTC

I did some reading on it sounds like a pretty good amp. The price I could
find was about $2600. I think when your getting into that price range you
should consider a Boutique Amp or having one built to your liking. The combo
has a single 10" I would have to hear that. It also has a printed circuit
board for that price I would want hand wired. I do like that you can chose
the Tolex and Mesa dose make some good Amps. I would suggest going to shop
early that has Mesa 5:25 And try it for about an hour, maybe get it side by
side with other's you like.

http://www.guitar.com.au/amplifiers/electric/mesa_boogie/index.htm
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Reviews/2007-Express-GP/Express525-GPreview.html

housemouse

2007-12-01 20:49:19 UTC

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david morley

2007-12-01 22:26:21 UTC

Post by housemouse

IIRC these amps are selling for $1,100 or so in the US. Even
accounting for US vs. AU dollars, the price in AU is crazy. I agree
that at that price you should consider something else, maybe you could
get something built locally.
For what it's worth, I played one of the 5:25 for 20 minutes or so
once trying out some guitars. I thought it was pretty good, but I
don't think I would spend $1,100 on one. Maybe I just didn't play it
long enough to get the full effect. It had a bunch of switches and
different settings, and you could get a lot of sounds out of it, all
of them good I thought. I'm not slamming the amp, I did think it was
good. Maybe it was just better than I need. Right now I have a classic
30, a blues junior, and a valve junior - and I guess they are good
enough for a hack player like me.
If it's really a bedroom amp you are looking for, and you'd keep that
5:25 at 5 watts - I seriously be there is someone local to you who
could put together a pretty good 5 watt 10" speaker amp for like 1/3
of what one of those things would cost you.

I tried a 5:25 and thought it was Brilliant... I'd pay the money gladly
if I was looking for that kind of amp

Tony Done

2007-12-01 23:45:56 UTC

Post by housemouse

We're a captive market here in Oz, you couldn't import one for less than the
asking price, to saying nothing of warranty loss and shipping risks. It's
the same with many things, not just amps. We just grin and bear it. Looking
at it from the importer's point of view, the potential market is fairly
small, so they have the risk of having stuff stuck in a warehouse to months,
maybe having to sell it off cheap in the end. - So they look for a higher
profit margin to cover their financial liabilities. Prices of pickups seem
daft though, I can import two SDs for just about the asking price of one
here, and it isn't even the kind of thing where you can try before you
buy. - Though if you are on friendly terms with the seller, he might let you
return them if you aren't satisfied with the sound - against a future sale.

There are good amp builders here, my amp guru mate has mentioned a few, and
he himself will build pretty much what you want, based on a kit. (He just
did a killer "clean" mod on an Ashton VP30 for himself) Unfortunately I
can't recall names, but one he did mention favourably was Retrosound:

http://www.retrosound.com.au/

The website is unfinished, but he assures me that an email will get a
response.

Tony D

soupdragon

2007-12-01 22:46:42 UTC

Post by Metebelis
I have tried a number of amps in my search for good valve ( tube )
Fender Deville and Hot Rod series
Laney Lionheart
Ephiphone Blues Custom 30 (and the Grainger copy)
but I have decided that the Mesa Boogie Express 5:25 (the most
expensive) sounds the best.
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Express/Express.htm
Any comments on this amp or alternative suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks
www.metebelis.co.uk

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

RichL

2007-12-01 23:02:56 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to service.

Woody

2007-12-01 23:07:56 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to service.

Up until about 10 years ago I had been an electronic engineer all my
working life and there is no problem servicing anything with a circuit
board (especially so with large electronics like amplifiers). Certainly
easier to service than anything wired by hand and much cheaper.

--
Woody

www.alienrat.com

soupdragon

2007-12-02 10:48:41 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to service.

Servicing a valve amp simply involves changing the valves as neccessary.
I don't see how that can be more expensive than dealing with a hand wired
one. Also PCB (well designed ones) can be very reliable and robust - much
more so than hand wired equipment - as it can give better mechanical
support to componnents than tag/turret board.

Dave Curtis

2007-12-02 11:57:53 UTC

I did some reading on it sounds like a pretty good amp. The price I could
find was about $2600. I think when your getting into that price

range

Post by Sacramento Dave
you should consider a Boutique Amp or having one built to your

liking.

Post by Sacramento Dave
The combo has a single 10" I would have to hear that. It also has a
printed circuit board for that price I would want hand wired.

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to

service.
Servicing a valve amp simply involves changing the valves as neccessary.
I don't see how that can be more expensive than dealing with a hand wired
one. Also PCB (well designed ones) can be very reliable and robust - much
more so than hand wired equipment - as it can give better mechanical
support to componnents than tag/turret board.

OK, how long does it take to change two jacks and three pots attached
to the circuit board of a '96 Valvestate? Now, how long to change two
jacks and three pots in a '72 Fender Twin Reverb? What's that? You
don't need to change them because they were never mounted on the
circuit board and therefore never subjected to undue stress? Ah,
that's what I thought. Valves aren't the only things that fail,
especially in a PCB amp. Been there, done that. PCB amps (tube or SS)
are usually much more time-consuming to fix than point-to-point. Try
replacing a preamp socket in a PV 5150 and get back to me on that. ;o)

-DC

soupdragon

2007-12-02 21:37:53 UTC

Post by soupdragon
Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to

service.
Servicing a valve amp simply involves changing the valves as
neccessary. I don't see how that can be more expensive than dealing
with a hand wired one. Also PCB (well designed ones) can be very
reliable and robust - much more so than hand wired equipment - as it
can give better mechanical support to componnents than tag/turret
board.

OK, how long does it take to change two jacks and three pots attached
to the circuit board of a '96 Valvestate?

I did say (twice) a *well designed* PCB. A Valvestate hardly qualifies
for that on any criteria! But..chassis out probably 5 -10 minutes if
I have my tools to hand.

Post by Dave Curtis
Now, how long to change two
jacks and three pots in a '72 Fender Twin Reverb?

Is it a 4 channel amp like the Marshall? Otherwise it's apples and
oranges. Show me a 4 channel hand wired tube amp for a true comparison
and I doubt you'd be able to do it in twice that time due to the
restrictions the tie wrapped wiring looms you'd have to move out the
way to get access to the components would put on you.

Post by Dave Curtis
What's that? You
don't need to change them because they were never mounted on the
circuit board and therefore never subjected to undue stress?

Umm..mounting sockets on PCBs has always been a no no - its bad designs
and fails the criteria. ANyway, pots do fail largely due to moisture
ingress. Oh, and I have a Vortexion 50 watt (2 x EL34s) from 1958. It has
a PCB and has never had to have either jacks or pots replaced and still
works. *Proper* design means you don't have component failure and
mechanical stresses are taken into account. WHy hasn't this amp failed?
Because it was mil spec and used for PA systems on Royal Navy warships.
That meant it had to be tough and that meant well designed printed
wiring, rather than p-p wiring with the inherant strain on solder joints
that the weight of cable harnesses would cause.

Ah,

Post by Dave Curtis
that's what I thought.

What did you think?

Post by Dave Curtis
Valves aren't the only things that fail,
especially in a PCB amp. Been there, done that. PCB amps (tube or SS)
are usually much more time-consuming to fix than point-to-point.

So how long do you think it'll take you to repair that 4 channel p-p
wired valve amp, hmmm. Get back to me when you've figured that out.

Post by Dave Curtis
Try
replacing a preamp socket in a PV 5150 and get back to me on that.

Bring it on. 8 to 10 minutes. Try changing the jack socket on an
early Sound City AP120. What's that? You can't because some dingbat
at Sound City when designing the amp put the first valve socket too
close to the jack socket and you had to remove the valve socket first
(and, of course, the p-p leads to the socket were way too short so you
had to desolder the whole socket first) before you can get the jack
socket out? Of course, during production, that wasn't a problen as they
simply popped the jack socket in before the valve base and wiring up.

Bad design is commonplace and p-p is not exempt. Rather than accepting
bad design, you should be demanding much higher quality standards. Alas
musical instrument amplifiers seems to the last remaining bastion of
poorly designed equipment.

BTW Ever tried to repair a p-p wired colour TV? I have - give me PCBs
any day.

Dave Curtis

2007-12-03 02:55:56 UTC

Post by soupdragon
Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to

service.
Servicing a valve amp simply involves changing the valves as
neccessary. I don't see how that can be more expensive than dealing
with a hand wired one. Also PCB (well designed ones) can be very
reliable and robust - much more so than hand wired equipment - as it
can give better mechanical support to componnents than tag/turret
board.

OK, how long does it take to change two jacks and three pots attached
to the circuit board of a '96 Valvestate?

I did say (twice) a *well designed* PCB.

You did, and you're correct. Too bad they don't design them very well
(anymore). Name one current manufacture amplifier with a
"well-designed" circuit board that isn't a pain to service.

Post by soupdragon
A Valvestate hardly qualifies
for that on any criteria! But..chassis out probably 5 -10 minutes if
I have my tools to hand.

Dream on... I know better.

Post by Dave Curtis
Now, how long to change two
jacks and three pots in a '72 Fender Twin Reverb?

Is it a 4 channel amp like the Marshall?

Where did "4 channel" come from?

Post by soupdragon
Otherwise it's apples and
oranges. Show me a 4 channel hand wired tube amp for a true comparison
and I doubt you'd be able to do it in twice that time due to the
restrictions the tie wrapped wiring looms you'd have to move out the
way to get access to the components would put on you.

There's no "tie wrapped wiring looms" in a '72 TR.

Post by Dave Curtis
What's that? You
don't need to change them because they were never mounted on the
circuit board and therefore never subjected to undue stress?

Umm..mounting sockets on PCBs has always been a no no - its bad designs
and fails the criteria.

And yet they keep doing it.

Post by soupdragon
ANyway, pots do fail largely due to moisture
ingress.

No, worn carbon tracks used to be the most common failure mode. Now I
see more pots broken from the stress from being attached to a
faceplate *and* a PCB.

Post by soupdragon
Oh, and I have a Vortexion 50 watt (2 x EL34s) from 1958. It has
a PCB and has never had to have either jacks or pots replaced and still
works. *Proper* design means you don't have component failure and
mechanical stresses are taken into account. WHy hasn't this amp failed?
Because it was mil spec and used for PA systems on Royal Navy warships.
That meant it had to be tough and that meant well designed printed
wiring, rather than p-p wiring with the inherant strain on solder joints
that the weight of cable harnesses would cause.

My 57 Stromberg Carlson and my mid 40s Webster PA amps were handwired
and both are still going strong. They're both well-designed also.

Post by Dave Curtis
that's what I thought.

What did you think?

I'm thinking you've never been in either a Valvestate or a Twin
Reverb.

Post by Dave Curtis
Valves aren't the only things that fail,
especially in a PCB amp. Been there, done that. PCB amps (tube or SS)
are usually much more time-consuming to fix than point-to-point.

So how long do you think it'll take you to repair that 4 channel p-p
wired valve amp, hmmm. Get back to me when you've figured that out.

I don't think, I *know* it takes longer than it does on the Twin. I
also know that I've done it way more often on these newer amps than on
older ones like a Twin.

Post by Dave Curtis
Try
replacing a preamp socket in a PV 5150 and get back to me on that.

Bring it on. 8 to 10 minutes.

Loading Image...

Post by soupdragon
Try changing the jack socket on an
early Sound City AP120.
What's that? You can't because some dingbat
at Sound City when designing the amp put the first valve socket too
close to the jack socket and you had to remove the valve socket first
(and, of course, the p-p leads to the socket were way too short so you
had to desolder the whole socket first) before you can get the jack
socket out? Of course, during production, that wasn't a problen as they
simply popped the jack socket in before the valve base and wiring up.

Well, I didn't have to go through all that trouble...

Post by soupdragon
Bad design is commonplace

Especially the newer stuff.

Post by soupdragon
and p-p is not exempt.

Personally, I see a *lot* more badly designed PCB amps than p-p, but
then again, I fix broken amps.

Post by soupdragon
Rather than accepting
bad design, you should be demanding much higher quality standards.

Yeah, right.

Post by soupdragon
Alas
musical instrument amplifiers seems to the last remaining bastion of
poorly designed equipment.

Actually, MI amps were the last holdout against the downward spiral of
designed obsolesence. Why have it fixed when you can get a newer one
cheaper? Who gets their TV fixed anymore?

Post by soupdragon
BTW Ever tried to repair a p-p wired colour TV? I have - give me PCBs
any day.

Don't do TVs, thanks. I've got a full plate as it is. I have a
Magnavox w/ a intermittant on the PCB; do *you* want a crack at it?.
I'm thinking I'll just get a new one.

I agree that a well-designed PCB amp can work as well as a
well-designed P-P amp. It's just that most of the new stuff is crap
that keeps getting more tech unfriendly; I won't work on some of it.

We all have our opinions, and mine is that it's easier to replace a
component in a handwired "p-p" amp than it is to pull a circuit board
and replace a component, that's all.

Do you disagree that PCB amps are "Much more difficult generally (and
therefore more expensive) to service"?

He *did* say generally. Ampeg V-series amps are a breeze to work on
because you don't have to pull a PCB, just a coverplate.

Back to the topic amp; I'm not sure about the Mesa Boogie Express
5:25 in particular, but Mesas used to have flying leads on their pots
& jacks. I have fixed a few unsupported large components on some Mesa
boards, but i'm sure glad I didn't have to pull them out to do it.

-DC

soupdragon

2007-12-03 19:52:36 UTC

Post by soupdragon
Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Much more difficult generally (and therefore more expensive) to

service.
Servicing a valve amp simply involves changing the valves as
neccessary. I don't see how that can be more expensive than dealing
with a hand wired one. Also PCB (well designed ones) can be very
reliable and robust - much more so than hand wired equipment - as it
can give better mechanical support to componnents than tag/turret
board.

OK, how long does it take to change two jacks and three pots
attached to the circuit board of a '96 Valvestate?

I did say (twice) a *well designed* PCB.

You did, and you're correct. Too bad they don't design them very well
(anymore). Name one current manufacture amplifier with a
"well-designed" circuit board that isn't a pain to service.

Trace Elliot Speed Twin. Double sided PCB though, so you need a vacuum
desolder station but anyone doing repair seriously should have one
anyway.

Post by soupdragon
A Valvestate hardly qualifies
for that on any criteria! But..chassis out probably 5 -10 minutes if
I have my tools to hand.

Dream on... I know better.

As have I - 8080 combo.

Post by Dave Curtis
Now, how long to change two
jacks and three pots in a '72 Fender Twin Reverb?

Is it a 4 channel amp like the Marshall?

Where did "4 channel" come from?

The Marshall is a 4-channel amp - well Ok 2 channel with each channel
having 2 modes. It's far more complex than a Twin reverb, so hardly
a fair comparison.

There's no "tie wrapped wiring looms" in a '72 TR.

I know - but any p-p valve amp of the same complexity as the
Valvestate certainly would need them.

Post by Dave Curtis
What's that? You
don't need to change them because they were never mounted on the
circuit board and therefore never subjected to undue stress?

Umm..mounting sockets on PCBs has always been a no no - its bad
designs and fails the criteria.

And yet they keep doing it.

SO they are badly designed..my point all along.

Post by soupdragon
ANyway, pots do fail largely due to moisture
ingress.

No, worn carbon tracks used to be the most common failure mode. Now I
see more pots broken from the stress from being attached to a
faceplate *and* a PCB.

Again, extremely poor design criteria - solder joints should *never* be
used as a support element. That's basic stuff.

Post by soupdragon
Oh, and I have a Vortexion 50 watt (2 x EL34s) from 1958. It has
a PCB and has never had to have either jacks or pots replaced and
still works. *Proper* design means you don't have component failure
and mechanical stresses are taken into account. WHy hasn't this amp
failed? Because it was mil spec and used for PA systems on Royal Navy
warships. That meant it had to be tough and that meant well designed
printed wiring, rather than p-p wiring with the inherant strain on
solder joints that the weight of cable harnesses would cause.

My 57 Stromberg Carlson and my mid 40s Webster PA amps were handwired
and both are still going strong. They're both well-designed also.

So we both agree a good designed pcb is more than a match for p-p. BTW I
worked for a company that specialised in ruggedised instrumentation for
portable generating sets for use in hostile environments - ie African
jungle. The whole design criteria was an absolute minimum of p-p wiring
and maximising printed wiring for the purpose of reliability and
longevity of the equipment. That criteria was based on long term experience
in the field. p-p just doesn't cut it when the going gets tough.

Post by Dave Curtis
that's what I thought.

What did you think?

I'm thinking you've never been in either a Valvestate or a Twin
Reverb.

I'm afraid you think wrong. BTW I currently use a Fender Super 60. Never
had to open it even though it's a PCB design and getting on for 20 years
old.

Post by Dave Curtis
Valves aren't the only things that fail,
especially in a PCB amp. Been there, done that. PCB amps (tube or
SS) are usually much more time-consuming to fix than point-to-point.

So how long do you think it'll take you to repair that 4 channel p-p
wired valve amp, hmmm. Get back to me when you've figured that out.

I don't think, I *know* it takes longer than it does on the Twin. I
also know that I've done it way more often on these newer amps than on
older ones like a Twin.

Post by Dave Curtis
Try
replacing a preamp socket in a PV 5150 and get back to me on that.

Bring it on. 8 to 10 minutes.

Bullshit. Those sockets are soldered onto one side of a 4-sided
rectangular box of a PCB. It would take 8-10 minutes just to pull the
chassis and label all the ribbon cables. Wanna see?
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/dB_AudioTech/Amp%20Work/DCP_0131.
jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/dB_AudioTech/Amp%20Work/DCP_0133.
jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j45/dB_AudioTech/Amp%20Work/DCP_0132.
jpg

Hmmm single sided PCB, unsupported heavy electrolytics - not a good
start for a 'well-designed pcb' amp. But - looks to me like the 'box'
is bolted to the chassis by a couple of screws through the bottom face
of the box. Unbolt those, unfold the 'box' carefully to ensure the clearly
high quality professional 'mother/daughter/grandchild board' links don't
get broken, and then a few minutes underside with the vacuum solder station
Piece of cake.

I have to say, that's a ridiculously bad design. The daughter board seems
to be held almost entirely by copper wire links and there are large HV
electrolytics flapping about held on by, at best, a blob of silastic gunk
(or more likely hot melt glue) or nothing at all other than the soldered
leads.

Post by soupdragon
Alas
musical instrument amplifiers seems to the last remaining bastion of
poorly designed equipment.

Actually, MI amps were the last holdout against the downward spiral of
designed obsolesence. Why have it fixed when you can get a newer one
cheaper? Who gets their TV fixed anymore?

Perhaps that's because they rarely break down these days, compared to
days of old and the rats nest in the back that was p-p?

Post by soupdragon
BTW Ever tried to repair a p-p wired colour TV? I have - give me PCBs
any day.

Don't do TVs, thanks. I've got a full plate as it is. I have a
Magnavox w/ a intermittant on the PCB; do *you* want a crack at it?.
I'm thinking I'll just get a new one.

Probably a good idea - I'd cost you too much. Of course the quality
of TV now is way better than was (well not the programming) largely
as a result of the improved performance possible with highly integrated
PCB based systems, plus they are cheaper. Try building a p-p HDTV.
(Actually John Logie Baird built and demostrated one in 1946 - 1000 line
full colour.)

Post by Dave Curtis
I agree that a well-designed PCB amp can work as well as a
well-designed P-P amp. It's just that most of the new stuff is crap
that keeps getting more tech unfriendly; I won't work on some of it.

I don't disagree, but I suspect that the argument the manufacturer would
put up is that pcb equipment is far more reliable and hence less likely
to need repair.

Post by Dave Curtis
We all have our opinions, and mine is that it's easier to replace a
component in a handwired "p-p" amp than it is to pull a circuit board
and replace a component, that's all.
Do you disagree that PCB amps are "Much more difficult generally (and
therefore more expensive) to service"?

The current crop - certainly, but there are exceptions like the Trace.

G. Verhoef

2007-12-31 13:17:11 UTC

I hardly understand a thing of what you guys are talking about,
soupdragon and Dave Curtis.
But in this day and age of lousy craftsmenship it is really a pleasure
to know that somewhere on this world there still are people who care
about how things are made ans apparently know what they are talking about.
Just wanted to let you know.

Gerard

Dave Curtis

2007-12-31 16:18:30 UTC

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:17:11 +0100, "G. Verhoef"

Post by G. Verhoef
I hardly understand a thing of what you guys are talking about,
soupdragon and Dave Curtis.
But in this day and age of lousy craftsmanship it is really a pleasure
to know that somewhere on this world there still are people who care
about how things are made and apparently know what they are talking about.
Just wanted to let you know.
Gerard

Well, IDK exactly which thread you're talking about, but I'll take the
compliment. Thank you very much. I *try* to know what I'm talking
about and won't post if I don't.

I figure I'll still be learning when I take my last breath, so I'll
help people along the way, and learn from those who've "been there,
done that".

Happy New Year, Everybody!!

-DC

Tony Done

2007-12-02 02:57:28 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

One of the potential problems noted by my tech mate when investigating the
noise problem in the Mesa Express was the large amount of stuff squeezed
onto a small board. He isn't specifically pro-PTP, and he didn't identify
the tight spacing as a problem, but he did think it could be a contributory
factor.

Tony D

Squier

2007-12-28 14:49:45 UTC

Post by Tony Done

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.

But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.

I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).

I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.

Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).

ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

Fit E. Cal

2007-12-28 20:17:51 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Good post man! It'd great to see many more like them in '08! I played
through both the 5:25 and 5:50 in different stores and think they're
both excellent amps and would love to own 'em! For the price
difference, I think the 5:50 is the better move. Mesa and BadCat are
both great 'high end' mass mfr. U.S. amp companies imo. Both companies
have their gems to find within. mvm

Tony Done

2007-12-29 20:10:22 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I would
have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores and b)
trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want to try
the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the change,
not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As it is, I'm
happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep the BD, the
H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a tele) and I can
run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much volume.

Tony D

Fit E. Cal

2007-12-29 21:24:51 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

Two amps; You might want to try effects that offer split out signals
for stereo, like chorus (very light touch), delay (again, just a
touch) and even compression (see the Pronus Blue Max). Then, split out
to amps using a Radial Switchbone. To those accustomed to black, white
and gray, an auditory spectrum of luminescent color opens. :-) mvm
www.geocities.com/mvm55555

Fit E. Cal

2007-12-29 21:29:48 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band
playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but
not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this
was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

Oops- I use it all the time; PreSonus Blue Max www.presonus.com/bluemax.html

dan

2008-01-01 22:01:05 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

Not sure why everyone complains about the hiss. Once you're playing you
don't hear it, if it's bothersome when your're not playing then just turn
the Standby switch to off or lower the volume on the guitar.
I get great sounds out of the amp with both my Strat and Gibson ES 135 LTD.
Having said that, tone is so personal to each individual that it's
meaningless to say that one amp sounds better than another. I was after a
Fender Tweed tone and did alot of A/B-ing of amps and was taken by the
little 5:25. The only amp I preferred was the Twin but that is one heavy and
loud amp.

Dan

Fit E. Cal

2008-01-02 05:01:01 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter
but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this
was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

M***@disney.com

2008-01-02 12:09:23 UTC

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 21:01:01 -0800 (PST), "Fit E. Cal"

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live
band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter
but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this
was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

This post is only made to mention what part of your post here
attracts negetive comments and flames..we all know this stuff already
and reposting it just places a "kick me" sign on your back as well as
sending the thread offpost...you are "speaking it into exsistance" as
it were...not a flame..just an observation...

Tony Done

2008-01-02 20:50:02 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter
but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this
was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

Dan, You are correct in my opinion. The same can also be said about
hums. Complaining is an art form for a lot of these guys. They hate
themselves for it, hate copping to an M.O. of it and re-direct that
hate by complaining about whovever points the fact out. This usually
takes the form of lies, distortions, smears, etc. mvm

I don't see that my comment that I couldn't get on with the background noise
is complaining, it is just an expression on my personal view. - I paid for
it, took it home, tried it, had a tech look at it and took it back to the
shop again. I really don't care whether you or anyone else outside my
audience likes the amp or not, that noise was a deal breaker for me. And I
*****do not***** go in for lies, distortions smears, trolls, responding to
trolls (an exception in your case, because I resent attacks on my attacks on
my veracity and/or intelligence) etc.

Thanks

Tony D PhD (Nottingham), BSc Hons (Bath)
.

Fit E. Cal

2008-01-02 21:15:27 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing
like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live
band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter
but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this
was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

Dan, You are correct in my opinion. The same can also be said about
hums. Complaining is an art form for a lot of these guys. They hate
themselves for it, hate copping to an M.O. of it and re-direct that
hate by complaining about whovever points the fact out. This usually
takes the form of lies, distortions, smears, etc. mvm
I don't see that my comment that I couldn't get on with the background noise
is complaining, it is just an expression on my personal view. - I paid for
it, took it home, tried it, had a tech look at it and took it back to the
shop again. I really don't care whether you or anyone else outside my
audience likes the amp or not, that noise was a deal breaker for me. And I
*****do not***** go in for lies, distortions smears, trolls, responding to
trolls (an exception in your case, because I resent attacks on my attacks on
my veracity and/or intelligence) etc.
Thanks
Tony D PhD (Nottingham), BSc Hons (Bath)
.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Tony Done

2008-01-03 07:39:08 UTC

Right on. Tony- I think perhaps it's the amp's application; In a live
setting, that extranneous noise is pretty well dimissible, but at home
or perhaps for studioo, that may be an issue-- I never noticed hissing
in the glass room at the store, but I'll check it out again.

The place where I bought the amp is owned by a friend of mine, and the tech
is also a friend of both of us, so we are on fairly relaxed terms with each
other. When I returned the amp, I told him I had taken it to our tech mate,
and we all agreed it was a great sounding amp for gigging, but not what I
was looking for as something that would do duty as a lounge room amp. Both
of them suggested that the good sound and the noise were related, cure one
and lose the other. I was really sorry I had to return it, but I knew that
the noise issue would eventually have me spending a lot of money looking for
a fix that might not work anyway.

As to
your other commentary, thanks for the heads up, no problem here or
where you're concerned, others know their own culpability... :-) mvm

Misunderstandings are common on Usenet, just so long as we recognise them
for what they are.......

Tony D

6***@gmail.com

2008-01-03 13:06:36 UTC

Post by Fit E. Cal
Right on. Tony- I think perhaps it's the amp's application; In a live
setting, that extranneous noise is pretty well dimissible, but at home
or perhaps for studioo, that may be an issue-- I never noticed hissing
in the glass room at the store, but I'll check it out again.
The place where I bought the amp is owned by a friend of mine, and the tech
is also a friend of both of us, so we are on fairly relaxed terms with each
other. When I returned the amp, I told him I had taken it to our tech mate,
and we all agreed it was a great sounding amp for gigging, but not what I
was looking for as something that would do duty as a lounge room amp. Both
of them suggested that the good sound and the noise were related, cure one
and lose the other. I was really sorry I had to return it, but I knew that
the noise issue would eventually have me spending a lot of money looking for
a fix that might not work anyway.
As to
your other commentary, thanks for the heads up, no problem here or
where you're concerned, others know their own culpability... :-) mvm
Misunderstandings are common on Usenet, just so long as we recognise them
for what they are.......
Tony D

I've was following this thread yesterday and wondering if I had missed
something. So I went home last night and fired up the 5:25 and cranked
it up. Plugged in the Les Paul and yep, there's hiss. Barely audible.
In a quiet room. Either I'm very lucky and got a 'good one' or there
was something wrong with that hissing 5:25.

I love my 5:25, it's the first new amp I've purchased in years. I've
always favored old combos from fender or gibson, once I had a
bandmaster head on a 2x12 but it was more work than it was worth. The
5:25 provides a wide variety of sounds and seems equally well suited
to my humbucker or single coil guitars.

Oh, and it hasn't broke yet. The way I figger it, if I want a PTP amp
with similar capabilities it would run two to three times as much,
which means I could have two or three for backup.

Ray

Fit E. Cal

2008-01-03 17:58:10 UTC

Post by 6***@gmail.com

I've was following this thread yesterday and wondering if I had missed
something. So I went home last night and fired up the 5:25 and cranked
it up. Plugged in the Les Paul and yep, there's hiss. Barely audible.
In a quiet room. Either I'm very lucky and got a 'good one' or there
was something wrong with that hissing 5:25.
I love my 5:25, it's the first new amp I've purchased in years. I've
always favored old combos from fender or gibson, once I had a
bandmaster head on a 2x12 but it was more work than it was worth. The
5:25 provides a wide variety of sounds and seems equally well suited
to my humbucker or single coil guitars.
Oh, and it hasn't broke yet. The way I figger it, if I want a PTP amp
with similar capabilities it would run two to three times as much,
which means I could have two or three for backup.
Ray- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I have to wonder if perhaps the wisest alternative alternative to
these two great Mesa amps (5:25, 5:50) might be among the BadCat
lines. They've also got a killer high quality number of Class A amps
(as well as A/B). mvm

Fit E. Cal

2008-01-02 19:55:12 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter
but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this
was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

Dan,

If you are in a position to buy one now, you would not make a mistake
in doing so. It's a "buy, keep and never look back" pc. of great gear.
Good luck! - Also, the same can be said of the BadCat line-- killer!
Have you tried? mvm

wistfullwilly

2008-01-05 16:44:24 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

<g> My choice is fairly limited both by my location and my financial
circumstances. To get something in the Express price range or higher I
would have had a) to go hunting round a lot of out-of-town music stores
and b) trade my Blues Deluxe. The real problem there is that I would want
to try the BD side by side with the new amp for a while before making the
change, not easy if shopping out of town in stores that don't know me. As
it is, I'm happy with my compromise too, the H&K Statesman. I get to keep
the BD, the H&K sounds good (I can get both crunch and twang without a
tele) and I can run the two amps in tandem if I ever need that much
volume.
Tony D

IMHO, if you have deep pockets, sure go for the Mesa, I've owned several
Boogies; including Mark IIc, Mark IV (simulclass), and currently .50+
rackmount. However, if what you're looking for is truly intended "for
home," the axe(s) you use and what you're going for sonically are prime
factors. I use a Hot Rod Deluxe at home w/ Fender American Strat fitted
w/ Semore Virt. Vintage pickups -- the system screams all the while
keeping me honest. I guess my point is that at home I want something
that will make me a better player first, and sonically pleasing second.

Whatever you decide, just enjoy yourself.

Best Regards,

willy

Fit E. Cal

2008-01-06 07:30:30 UTC

Why? A well designed printed wiring board amp is a match for
any handwired amp and it is consistent. (Key is 'well designed',
of course)

Tony - I think we had a similar discussion in alt.guitar about
the Mesa Express 5:25. I too traded mine in and wound up with
a Mesa/Boogie Mark III amp head. You know something - it is a lot
less cluttered inside (it is the black dot 2 6L6 tube non-simulclass version)
and it is is actually very quiet. Even the lead channel only puts up
a small amount of hiss which isn't really audible in practice sessions.
But anyways - the Mark III amp I have is a lot quieter yet it is 60 watts
and maybe it is (in part) because this older model has a lot less stuff
in there and much more open room. The board is a lot neater wired and
it just all looks laid out much more tidy and less cluttered up.
I too really liked the sounds of the 5:25 but that constant hiss really
got to me after a while - it wasn't a big deal at first, kinda like a gnat
that keeps buzzing around your head - but day after day of that gets annoying.
Ah well - it all works out for the best because this Mark III head is one
of the best sounding amps I have ever played through. It sounds nothing like newer
Mesas - much less 'processed' sounding and can do just about everything
except pure Fender cleans. (but gets close enough especially for live band playing).
I have also heard the Mesa Express 5:50 and it is a little bit quieter but not by much.
The real gem is the amp this replaced! The Mesa F-50 is a way better
sounding amp
than the Mesa 5:50 (except it doesn't have the 5 watt class A selection).
Instead of Express 5:50 I would choose the Mesa F-50 any day.
Well anyways the downfall of the 5:25 led me to the Mark III and so all's
well that end's well.
As soon as I plugged in and played through the Mark III then I knew this was 'the one'.
Amazingly great amp. (and 60 watts of 6L6 tube power is more than enough).
Actually a lot of the Boogie tone is had through the gain/preamp stages
rather than needing power tube distortion anyways so I can sort of
maintain a nice tone setting and then use the master volume to just
make that same tone louder or softer (if that makes sense).
ok. small rant over. maybe some of it was actually OT.

Lone Star Special

Mesa got it ALL right w/ this amp too :-) mvm

mykey

2007-12-01 17:01:05 UTC

Mesa Boogie amps are defective in design and
they don't last.

Tim Snell

2024-01-26 00:53:35 UTC

Post by mykey
Mesa Boogie amps are defective in design and
they don't last.

It's obvious you've never played with one. Mesa's are the best built amps out there. What a stupid response.

DeeAa

2007-12-01 18:10:02 UTC

Post by Metebelis
I have tried a number of amps in my search for good valve ( tube ) tone
Fender Deville and Hot Rod series

You must have one helluva bedroom if you consider that kind of power
bedroom suitable...I've had those and they be way too loud to properly
open up even with a band.

Me, I'd get a couple VJr's and mod'em a little, A/B for channels and
use something like a Cele Blue for speaker.

Tony Done

2007-12-01 20:31:22 UTC

I was going to buy one, paid for it and took it home. I loved the sounds
available, but it was too noisy for a bedroom amp, so I took it down to the
local amp guru, who after playing with it for a couple of days said their
was nothing short of major mods that would fix it. He also thought that
fixing the noise would also spoil the beautiful tones I could get. So I
sadly took it back to the shop and swapped it for an H&K 20w Dual EL84. Not
quite as singing and chimey as the Mesa, but I still prefer it to the Peavey
Classic 30 I once owned, and the (original version) Fender Blues Deluxe and
Epi VJ I currently own. I only use it for clean, and the clean channel is
loud, bright and complex, with a useful "twang" switch that even makes a
bright humbucker (eg SD Jazz) sound something like a tele. I'm told the gain
channel has a Marshall-like crunch, don't know about that, as I'm not into
overdriven amps, but it sounds OK to me.

Tony D

Fit E. Cal

2007-12-02 08:35:33 UTC

I agree, it sounds great. Because something is more costly -might-
mean it is more valuable. I think that amp is probably an excellent
buy and certainly, MB has earned a solid, well respected reputation
for quality and tone, in general. This forum is often packed with guys
convinced that cheap is a virtue. Sometimes it is, Sometimes, it's
just -cheap- and they get what they pay for. Caveat Emptor!
www.geocities.com/mvm55555

Harrison Ford Prefect

2007-12-03 02:56:17 UTC

Yeah. If it sounds the best to you, and you
can afford it, buy it.

But htat's a lotta jack for an amp for playing
at home. I'd get the closest thing I could and
learn how to mod.

Stompbox

2007-12-03 09:49:33 UTC

How about this range of amps - it was mentioned in guitar & bass
magazine here in the UK - it is a firm based in the USA and they do a
great looking range of small valve amps. How about the tiny separate
amp head?

Anyway this is the link to the site:-

http://www.electrosonicamplifiers.com/standards.php

All the best,

Geoff

j***@gmail.com

2019-10-06 20:02:02 UTC